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Discussion 1 to Ask the Patriarch 271
Logic my foot!

from: Brainydaps

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I don't get. When you say GOD are you specifically referring to the Christian GOD Yahweh?

If no,then Sorry,my bad,I retract my argument.

If Yes, what about Allah and Krishna also,are you also sitting on the fence about their existence?

If Yes,then why not sit ofbthe fence about my invisible black giant rat god who revealed to me how he created the universe, he showed me the mathematical proof that the big bang is wrong,he showed me a lot of things we humans don't know about the universe, if you can consider GOD,Allah and Krishna. Why not my own god who is more scientific than you are? Any logic?

If no,then it means you are biased towards Yahweh, why should you be considering only Yahweh and not other gods that have numerous believers too,it seems That's your own criteria; as numerous as the believers is as likely as the god, logic my foot.

JT replies:

Quite honestly, the phrase "sitting on the fence" annoys me. Whether you intend it or not, your use of the phrase comes across as patronizing and insulting. While I know some agnostics are indeed still in the throes of making a decision one way or another, I am not. My decision is made. I said it long ago.

[A]gnosticism in itself is a legitimate end position with respect to religious belief. We do not know because we cannot know. The ultimate truth about the existence of a Supreme Being is unknowable. Recognizing this, we can free ourselves from a fruitless search.

No - I'm not sitting on any fence waiting to jump one way or another. My decision is made. The same is true of many who identify as agnostics.

A simple search of the site for "sitting on the fence" will bring up several articles where it has been discussed before.

You ask me "When you say GOD are you specifically referring to the Christian GOD Yahweh?"

I'd remind you that when you initiated this exchange, your comments were in a response to my criticism of the so-called 50 simple proofs that god is imaginary. Now those pitiful proofs were almost exclusively concerned with the Christian god. The atheist writer of those proofs must have thought that dealing with the Christian god was sufficient enough to dispose of all gods. Naturally, my disposition of his arguments involved a focus on the god the "proofs" covered.

But no - in general when I refer to god(s), I am not refering specifically to a Christian god. Or a god of any other religion. But, when context requires me to refer to a specific god, then I'm referring to a specific god.

Last month, I wrote Meditation 1161: A Minimalist Position Why I remain Agnostic, Even Increasingly So. I'd refer you to it if you want to know what I feel about the various gods you mention. Now that article is a personal position. Other agnostics have their own basis for agnosticism, some a lot less minimal than my own. But I strongly doubt you would succeed in finding an agnostic occupying the position you incorrectly assign - sitting on the fence equally for every single god ever proposed by humankind.

That's just an extremely silly strawman argument. You are attacking an agnosticism that does not exist, and which certainly does not represent my own position. And that has led you into using once again your very silly "invisible black giant rat god" which you expect me to be agnostic about. Your rat as presented by you does not merit the slightest consideration. (And if you don't understand why, I suggest that you reread the Russell's teapot comments in my previous response. Failing that, read the wikipedia article on Russell that I recommended.)

You conclude with "logic my foot." I'd suggest you actually try using logic yourself instead of whatever you are trying to do with this exchange.

And before you come back to me with more of the same, please try using the site search function (found in the top left on nearly every page) to see if the issue has already been dealt with.

Q & A 271 >

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