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Discussion 6 to Meditation 13
Re: Proofs of God's Existence (1)

by Thomas

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Addendum to a Laundry list (1 of 7)

"Just so that you don't feel that there are no proofs, despite the fact that you continue to ignore the proofs I have sent previously, there are others:"

Ad tedium ad infinitum, assumptions are thus!

These proofs are all nothings; non-proof; a mere belief list: I believe this, logical belief that, the Bible says so, Designer can anthropomorphically be anachronized backward to a God concept, knowledge (not instinct, or psychology) exists in mind prior to being taught about God even though history reveals the evolution of religious concepts starting with the simple; then acquired much later sophistication through cultural diffusion; and contact with (weak) philosophical thinking; etc; etc; etc; God is first cause because I believe a singularity event to be first cause and I believe God caused singularity, even if it is not first cause and there was another cause prior to singularity; etc.

Because this is laundry list of beliefs, assumptions, and myths I will present the list highlighted with the assumptions I will expose the assumptions one by one in addendum to this post (here is the First one from the Laundry list):

1.      The universal belief in a Supreme Being that is found in every civilization and every culture worldwide. This is because the Bible says that God has placed the knowledge of His existence "in them".

A universal belief; there is no such thing known. For it to be universal I would have to believe what you believe; and I don’t; and that belief would have to be specific; Allah and the Koran is not in specific equality with Christendom; which is not in specific equality with denominations therein; which is not in specific equality with Judaism; which is not in specific equality with Zoroastrianism; which is not in specific equality with Aton-ism; and these are all monotheistic religions that; are NOT in universal agreement; in specificity as to what a God concept is (as told to you; as told to them). This is an apparent (meaning nearly) universal disagreement. AND this is a list of believers of monotheism. This doesn’t even include the list of participants of pantheonistic belief systems! Or those that are non-believers of theism in its religious entirety; or those that just don’t care; and don’t pretend to know (answers that as yet - are not known; the agnostic)..

Supreme Being; is a conceptual misnomer; there is in FACT; as known; no such thing as of yet. A conceptualization is the opposite of what is true; or known. Statements made and called truth; are assumptions; false-truths (oft stated as true; yet proven false); or weak guesses called truth. Some of the best science is done by (weak reasoning) intuition and assumption; BUT when if fails to prove anything; IT IS IMMEDIATELY discarded; if it remains it is because it can be; used, referenced to FACTS in reality, it aids in the manipulation of reality, and you can infer leads to other FACTS about reality, which lead to further discovery; etc. Supreme Being; is a misnomer; for a question. God (Supreme Being; same thing) is not an answer; it is a question; theory; assumption; conceptualization; myth; wrapped around a word; now thought of (almost) as a name: “God.” It is not; it is merely and unanswered question..

Is it found in every civilizationand every culture worldwide: Universal belief of the Biblical notion of monotheistic worship of a deity; is in fact not even universal within the Bible itself; as Yahweh is “God of Gods” or in the old El; of; or; in the Elohim. . . . God of bethel, Baal, El, Elohim (plural), Yahweh; etc. can be found in the (O.T.) Bible; why? Because the Israelites coexisted with other cultures; adopted their cultures; their pantheistic; pagan; false; true; who cares; the gods; and established their God (if you know the secret name; you’re a chosen one) as ruler of the others; while in reality; oft times the Israelites themselves were conquered; enslave; scattered; on the run; dying of plagues; etc.; their (the Torah; O.T. Bible) reflects their desires; their conceptualizations of Yahweh; to be: strong, merciless to the outsider (those outside the secret covenant, know-ers of the secret name); which oddly the secret name concept comes from both ancient Egypt and Sumeria. For Yahweh to be: merciless to those who go against the “tradition; the law”; which contains a lot more than 10 commandments I stopped counting at 42; to be merciless against those who challenge the temple and the monopoly of the priesthood; etc.; this in FACT is not evidence of man in the image of God; but GOD IN THE IMAGE OF MAN.  If anything is universal it is this: man when conceptualizing God will anthropomorphize his image onto his God concept; without this there can be no “Father,” “Son,” or “Ghost spirit,” there can be no way to relate (personalize the God concept) without the anthropomorphic image.

Universal belief of the Biblical Yahweh; the secret name; not even revealed to Abram; thusly renamed Abraham; to set scholarly; scribe-erly precedence; so Jacob could be renamed Israel; so Exodus (and Israel, and the 400 year God-cap) could be linked back to the Egyptian creation myth (of Nu, Ra, Osiris, Isis and their two sons) renamed; retold in variation; and Hebrewized into the Genesis account. Genesis required a renaming precedence in Abram, so it could be done to Jacob, so the two stories (and their 400 +/- year God inactivity gap) could be linked together; to Jacob-as-Israel; the Egyptian; so he could be linked to the Israelite; and the secret name (Yahweh) be given to Moses; and  therefore assume an immediate monopoly of the priesthood over the people; making the state; in perpetual servitude to the priesthood; a covenant; the law; until the “end of days.” This is Genesis; Exodus; Deuteronomy; Numbers; this is Leviticus the immediate detail of all priestly offerings; the (supposed) chronicles of Moses (and arbitrary authorship subscribed to the name); comprising the Pentateuch. This belief in the Judeo Yahweh God, keeper of a covenant establishing a priesthood monopoly on God (the concept) and establishment of one-God for one-people; can not be remotely considered as supreme in conception; supreme would simply be supreme over all; not one; and it would be supremely immediate; supreme to all and never to one. Therefore: considering another assigned aspect to the Supreme-being; the immutability aspect of supremeness. God is unchanging; if so then and therefore; either he is still one-God for one-people (the Israelite); or God is not supreme; for he has changed; if he has allowed Gentiles in; based upon the Saul-the-Paul’s collapse on the road to Damascus and his vision thereof; this concept of supremeness cannot be assigned to Yahweh; if it is neither supreme in conception; or supreme in immutability; either Yahweh is not the supreme-being or there is no such thing; in terms of the Biblical idea; or this supreme conceptualization of a God (concept).

This belief attributed to the Bible; as to what a supreme being is; (which is really a question); what this might even be; what worship is; all this and so much more; are all evidence of a another nearly universal disagreement. The Native American; the Inuit; the Sumerian; the Chinese; the Buddhist; the Toa-ist; the Shinto-ist; the Atheist; the Agnostic; etc.; do not share a common (nor universal) supreme being conceptualization; one based upon the bible; or one that in any way; equals your conceptualizations (of infinity projections onto being; which might actually be illogical; and often are; or meaningless; and often are); and conceptualization does not a God make; thus in equality; (question being ask) ≠ bible God.

The Bible says so: This is simply idiotic; (I’m sorry, I apologize, but it is); it is hardly even worthy of being addressed; BUT the bible is the origin of the idiocy; and not the scripture tossing advocate for Christianity. Is idiocy evidence of God? Is God an Idiot? A quality of being supreme; the supremeness should encompass all aspects of reality; infinity; etc.; Idiocy is a (subjective aspect; a) quality of being. Is God the Supreme-Idiot? If God has to maintain all aspects of reality in this supreme (supposed) nature - then it would have to be true. Based upon (Christian; and other religious) assumptions about this being; this super-nature of being supreme in its essence. Those emotionally attached; to the supreme concept; would reject this argument; not on logic; but on sentimental attachments. Disregarding the psychologically; the emotionally; and the sentimentally attached; their non-reasons for rejection can be discounted as they are not reasons at all. The question and argument are valid. Since supreme-ness (in all its wonder and aspects) has been stated as being a quality of this Biblical God; can I demonstrate that I am smarter than the “The Word of God?” IF I CAN and I am NOT the supreme-being; then I am at minimum superior to the intellect which conceived of “The Word of God.” Thus I exist as proof(!); in opposition to any Biblical proof of God; which in actuality has never been offered; ontological or otherwise; in which all contain an assumption-premise (there is a god; and) that was in equality with their assumption-conclusion. I therefore; offer PROOF(!); for I am superior to the “Word” and I am not a supreme-being; thence there is at a minimum; no longer a valid claim of a Biblical-supreme-being-God.

Since logic and intellect (evidenced) by my written word; can be compared to (evidence) of its logic and intellect by its written “Word.” Then; I am either superior or inferior to the intellect that conceived of the “Word” as written in the Bible. Compare:

Genesis 1:16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. (In fact; there is sunlight only; the moon is NOT a lesser light; light does not emanate from it; it is not a light; but it does reflect sunlight).

Me-sis 1:16: And one light began to burn; casting life giving warmth upon the whole of a new word; and the Moon (reflected the life giving light), and its life giving value was equal to the great light of the sky; (the sun-Ra). For the moon shall have control of the seasons, the tides, and make the weather equitable so that man can be. So that creatures of the seas; the creatures of the land; the creatures of the air; so that all; can be. And unto that which is called heaven; more than can be counted came into being; other worlds, stars, and galaxies, all came into being; in quantity and distance that inspires the imagination. (The sun is in equality with the moon as far as making; keeping the earth compatible with life; if there was not a moon; the earth would tumble on its axis; farming; ecosystems; phytoplankton populations; etc. could not exist; as they do; and there would be no man).

Intellect and knowledge test score:  Me: 1 “The Word” author : 0

Genesis 1:27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.  . . . 1:28: And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.  (It makes no sense to “replenish” an earth, at the moment it is supposedly created, only to then to “subdue it”; this is some bad spiritual philosophy; a bad reason to discount the value of nature; that which we need to continue to be).

Me-sis 1:28: And upon the soil; man and woman moved across all lands, and they were companions to bring forth life, he with his companion, she with her companion, and they looked to the sky for answers, but it was not found there, so they looked into the inner space, of self; a stillness inside and of their own, and it was quiet, and they heard an inner-voice, “You have dominion over all, but that is a duty and not a right.” And they listened to themselves feeling the echoes of the Earth, “If it needs to be replenished, then duty demands, replenish the Earth, when the Earth is in need,” and this is the covenant with the Earth, “Which you shall love and maintain for this generation, all generations unto generation upon generation, as if there shall be; NO end of days - thus you shall replenish it - when it (the Earth) is in need.”

Spiritual philosophy test score:     Me: 1     “The Word” author: 0

Running total score:                       Me: 2     “The Word” author: 0

Genesis 2:18: And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. (“Word” author rewrites Genesis 1:26:-1:28: over? And mangles it: What is “an help meet”, logically is this a woman, checked the Torah and same thing “an help meet”).

2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Me-sis 2:18: What I already said, it was good then and even better when compared to the errant revision of Genesis 2:18-2:25.

Errant revision:                              Me: 0     “The Word” author: -1

Running total score:                       Me: 2     “The Word” author: -1

Genesis 2:21: And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 2:22: And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 2:23: And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. (I will not offer or suggest that a woman is less than man, or that she came from him; that’s absurd; idiotic; we all know; we come from women).

Me-sis 2:21: There is a burden to be born; this is woman; she; is life; and the one that can bring forth life. Blessed is woman; for no man can be; until the burden of life is born; through her.

Spiritual Philosophy Bonus:           Me: 1     “The Word” author:  0

Running total score:                       Me: 3     “The Word” author: -1

I need to skip ahead or this post will be, well, as long as a Bible, lets explore math in the “Word.”

Numbers 3:15: Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them.

3:22: Those that were numbered of them, according to the number of all the males, from a month old and upward, even those that were numbered of them were seven thousand and five hundred.

7500 (Gershonites)

3:28: In the number of all the males, from a month old and upward, were eight thousand and six hundred, keeping the charge of the sanctuary.

8600 (Kohathites): Subtotal: 16100

3:34: And those that were numbered of them, according to the number of all the males, from a month old and upward, were six thousand and two hundred.

6200 (Merari): Subtotal: 22300

3:39: All that were numbered of the Levites, which Moses and Aaron numbered at the commandment of the LORD, throughout their families, all the males from a month old and upward, were twenty and two thousand. 22000 (←“Word” boo-boo, another minus 1 point.)

Me-numbers 3:39: The total was 22,300.

Simple arithmetic test score:         Me: 1     “The Word” author: -1

Running total score:                       Me: 4     “The Word” author: -2

Skipping again; lets explore religious tolerance; in the “Word.”

Deuteronomy 5:7: Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 5:8: Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:  5:9: Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I Yahweh, thy god am a jealous god, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. (Ouch Yahweh generation punch 3-4! Hey, I don’t even hate Yahweh, instead I forgive him.)

Me-uteronomy 5:7: All people are one body; the Earth is one home to all. If thou have a God, take care not to impose thee upon thy brother, thy sister - for all thus; walk with care in this life.  If there is one; then there is; only one, and all gods presented unto I AM; are a reflection unto I AM. If I am; I am the evil, the good, the life, the death, and the truth; that there is only one choice to life; to live in it.

Answering the God Question:        Me: 0     “The Word” author:  0

Running total score:                       Me: 4     “The Word” author: -2

Skipping again; let’s explore bear control or self-control in the “Word.”

2 Kings 2:19: And the men of the city said unto Elisha, Behold, I pray thee, the situation of this city is pleasant, as my lord seeth: but the water is naught, and the ground barren. 

2:23: And he went up from thence unto Bethel : and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 2:24: And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. (42 Children!) . . . 2:25: And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria . (And Elisha and the Bible just kept cruising as if nothing happened) 2 Kings 3:1: Now Jehoram the son of Ahab began to reign over Israel in Samaria the eighteenth year of Jehoshaphat king of Judah , and reigned twelve years.

2 Me-Kings 2:24: And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And the LORD spake unto Elisha, “Take it like a man! Be not a fool, nor so thin-skinned, they are the most joyous of children, and by the way - you are bald.” And Elisha’s countenance fell, and the LORD spake unto Elisha again, “Go unto the children, learn when a curse is a joinder, and an offer to play, and play as they play, until you have learned then the value of little children, before thou leave-est this place.” Thus the LORD commanded.

Killing innocent children:               Me: 0     “The Word” author: -42

Running total score:                       Me: 4     “The Word” author: -44

Skipping back to Genesis, sorry, let’s try to comprehend the concept of male-birthing in the “Word.”

Genesis 15:3: And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 15:4: And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 15:5: And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 15:6: And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. (If Abram can count all the stars? God will induce a child; an heir; out of his bowels. Of course the “Word” means what? I know bowels; in the old; meant inner; meaning from an inner something feeling; but literally; the counting of the stars part is even more ridiculous).

Me-sis 15:3: And Abram said, I have no heir, and behold-eth the LORD come unto thee thusly, verily he spoke these countenance lifting words, “Go be with your wife, until she conceives you a son; that is how ye shall make thine heir; for that is how everyone does it.” And Abram looked upon the stars and began to count them, after a few minutes he stopped. (Even though I am right imagination kudos to the “Word!”)

Imaginative child-birthing idea:     Me: 0     “The Word” author: 1

Running total score:                       Me: 4     “The Word” author: -43

Skipping forward, let’s try to comprehend consistency of message in the “Word.”

Matthew 5:9: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (1 point)

Matthew 10:34: Christ announced: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (-1 point)

Me-thew 5:9: Blessed is peace, and all who come in peace, and deliver the greatest piece of all to his fellowman, his fellowoman; live and let live; be and let be. 

Me-thew 10:34: Careful be the one that walks with the warrior, lest ye be cut down by sword; cut down by brother; or cut down thy brother-sisters. Yea, I say, careful is the one that spares the evil word: war.  

Consistency of message:               Me: 1     “The Word” author: 0

Running total score:                       Me: 5     “The Word” author: -43

FINAL total score:                         Me: 5     “The Word” author: -43

This of course is a subjective score; A score of -43 is equivalent to not scoring; this graciously I shall amend to thus: 0.

Since logic and intellect (evidenced) by my written word; is easily compared to (evidence) of its logic and intellect in its written “Word.” Therefore; I am superior to the intellect that conceived of the “Word” as written in the Bible. And I am not the supreme-being and neither is the author of the “Word”; nor does it reflect an inspiration from a supreme-being; nor do “Word” advocates possess any further claim to authority “In the name of God”; the supreme-being concept.

Last point on topic 1 of the Laundry list:

The Bible says God has placed the knowledge of his existence in us: is this true? Based upon the previous argument apparently it is not true. But is it true texturally; is “in them” in context or not? First of all Mark is the oldest Gospel, written about 40 years after the alleged death of somebody; assigned a name “Yeshua Netser.” Jesus is a Latinized name; and Netser means “branch of” not a town or place; but the assigning of a Nazarene practice to name; thought to be “of”; thus the Latin Nazareth; a fictitious town in the time the Gospel was written; after the fact; and it is a meaningless appellation. It is Yeshua:Jesus, the “branch of” Jesse (who begot David); the early Christians were even known as Jesse-ans; and Romans: has nothing to do with Yahweh, nor the Gospel of Mark (which is the oldest; and simplest; and complete list of sayings attributed to the Latin name: Jesus); it cannot be found in either the Old testament; out of  the “Words” attributed to Yahweh; nor is it in the Gospel of Mark; and the “Words” therein attributed to the Latin name: Jesus. But let’s look at the Jesus; God; Godhead commenting after the fact; after the Gospel account; is it even in context within Romans (Saul-the-Paul’s) commenting? After all it’s Saul-the-Paul(1) who is the founder of Christendom; not peter; and not the Latin name: Jesus. Does Saul-the-Paul’s comments = secret name: Yahweh, Latin name: Jesus; “Words,” does Paul speak as a God? The obvious answer is NO. It’s one thing to have a visitation (a psychological experience); it’s another to begin to assume God-like authority and speak in the name (or concept) of a supreme-being:

Romans 1:1: Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

1:3: Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;  1:6: Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: (Mere information, or does this pose a question; how can Yeshua be of a Davidian Branch; blood-line; when he is of Godhead DNA, and not Davidian DNA, and Mary is not of Davidian DNA, for in the Gospels of Mathew and Luke (the only source of Yeshua genealogy) the genealogy of Yeshua is Joseph back and begot; blah, blah, to David of Jesse. Somebody was not telling the truth about sperm donations.) 1:17: For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 1:18: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

1:19: Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

1:20: For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Saul-the-Paul is merely opining on the Gospel which is simply; a self-granted authority. This “in them” term appears to be an unrevealed (from heaven) quality of being; a not “in them” quality.  Paul is merely making this stuff up - as he rambles on about his ideas of faith: invisible things are clearly seen, wrath is revealed, it is manifest (in and un-shown; the “in them” idea) for it is shown (shewed; actually not manifest). While clearly the “in them” quality is a product of the meaningless ramblings of Saul-the-Paul, the use of this as proof(!) is out of context. Nor is it logical within the text. Nor is the Bible “Word” manifest within anybody; if it was “in them” “in you” you could simply dump the Bible altogether; it is already in you!   Is a Bible-type-God-the-Word manifest within an Eskimo? What a joke!

1. Note: Saul-the-Paul; renamed himself Paul, understanding the theological precedence concept. It must have occurred in theme somewhere else in the Bible for it to be believable! Precedence as set by the Author(s) of the Pentateuch; in Exodus ( Israel ) and in Genesis (Jacob) = Jacob renamed by Yahweh to Israel (now there is linkage to Exodus), covenant is established, and he died “gave up the ghost,” God of Israel! Precedence (as yet texturally) was not set though; for Jacob-> Israel and covenant with Yahweh. So Abram (in Genesis) is renamed to Abraham (as precedence theme for Jacobs renaming) by Yahweh; the covenant is made, and he died “gave up the ghost,” God of Abraham! Theme solidified! The covenant is law and the covenant is unique; thus the name (or a secret name given; in terms; to Moses; which is a slight variation in theme). Here cometh the real Christian; Saul! Renamed to Paul, after this vision of God as Latin name: Jesus; thus the NEW covenant, the NEW name, and the death, and the NEW “gave up the Ghost”; the resurrection thus the “HOLY SPIRIT.”  Trinity Godhead - Oooh! Theme precedence fulfilled! All mere fabrication(s); and Saul-the-Paul new this all to well.